Interview: Chris Carter

An interview from 2004 with one of UK's top ambient and industrial pioneers, Chris Carter.

Chris Carter, UK ambient and industrial pioneer of Throbbing Gristle and Chris & Cosey fame.

Chris Carter's studio in 1981.

Chris Carter's studio in 2005.

Chris Carter and long time collaborator, Cosey Fanni Tutti.

Planet Origo: What are your musical influences?

Chris Carter: If I made a list of music that has inspired me it would probably run to dozens of different genres and artists. But I think one of my earliest influences probably came from material made by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop for TV and radio. People like Delia Derbyshire were creating these amazing weird yet original and entirely new sounds and compositions. These were sounds that seemed to have no reference or connection to any conventional musical instruments and at the time it was truly groundbreaking. I was totally captivated and undoubtedly influenced.

I was also a child of the sixties so I guess that partly explains my music leanings towards psychedelic / experimental / progressive genres such as: Amon Duul, Hawkwind, David Vorhaus, The Nice, Klaus Schulze, Kraftwerk, early Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett, early Tangerine Dream, Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, King Crimson, Steve Hillage. In the early 1970s I listened to a lot of Walter (now Wendy) Carlos. To be honest I wasn't so keen on the "classical cover versions" but I found the sounds he was generating from his Moog system breathtaking. Carlos' Sonic Seasonings album is still one of the best electronic albums ever and was years ahead of its time.

I've also been a long time fan of Joe Meek's sound and production techniques. In the seventies I was given a tape of his I Hear A New World album and I found it very inspiring (and probably influential), that and Electric Ladyland by Jimi Hendrix. For many years I've found that much of the music which inspires and influences me has been movie soundtracks and sound design for film. I like a lot of Ennio Morricone's work but John Barry is probably my all time favourite composer, for film or otherwise. And Hollywood sound designer Walter Murch is a absolute master of his craft. But of course I acquired all my recording and production techniques and ideas from listening to the work of pop geniuses Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus. I still enjoy listening to almost anything by ABBA.

Planet Origo: Do you have other influences in your music, beside other artists / music?

Chris Carter: Apart from reading and photography one of my favourite pastimes is watching films. But I also enjoy traveling, which I get to to do a lot in this business. I get quite a lot of inspiration while traveling and I try to take my PowerBook with me so I can get ideas down before I loose the moment. I sometimes use my still camera to record low-res video clips of interesting location / sounds and import the audio into Ableton Live on my laptop.

Planet Origo: Your interest in electronics and music can be traced back to your dad's Bang & Olufsen hifi equipment, tell us about that.

Chris Carter: My father has always been an audiophile and most of my interest in sound can be traced back to his influence. In the sixties he built his own custom hi-fi systems, buying "off the shelf" modules and building his own speaker cabinets etc. This was all pretty good gear for the time, stuff like Tannoy, Leak, Quad, B&O etc. He was forever customising, modifying, tweaking and adding to his system (actually he still does that). When I was a teenager my father bought a Bang & Olufsen 7" reel to reel tape deck. He basically used it for recording from FM radio and playing pre-recorded tapes but it had some really neat features: sound-on-sound, varispeed and two tape heads. Around the same time I'd been given a portable battery operated tape deck that also had a varispeed function. So it wasn't long before I'd figured out how to use the B&O's two tape heads to get a rudimentary echo effect and began experimenting and composing by dubbing from tape-to-tape and other techniques like flipping the reels over to reverse the sounds and using the sound-on-sound feature to build up multiple layers of audio.

Planet Origo: How has your extensive collaborations with Cosey F. Tutti influenced your musical work for almost 30 years?

Chris Carter: We've been partners since 1979 and rarely spend time apart. We each have quite diverse tastes in music, books, TV, film and the arts so we undoubtedly influence each other in different and sometime subtle ways. When we are working on solo projects we often run ideas past each other and while we may not always agree on a some points I value Cosey's opinion above anyone else's.

Planet Origo: You played an important role in establishing the UK industrial music scene in the mid and late 70s, how did this music develop in the early years and why did this type of music capture you?

Chris Carter: We founded Industrial Records Ltd. in 1975 - 76, after Monte Cazazza proposed the term Industrial Music to describe the sound of [our band] Throbbing Gristle. Initially we were a three piece and our early compositions were extremely experimental with Genesis and Cosey playing electrified acoustic instruments, including percussion and a drum kit and me playing various keyboards, my custom made sound modules and tape rhythm loops. When Peter joined full time we discarded the acoustic percussion and also began using rhythm units and electronic percussion modules. Peter mainly used tape loops, and the audio feeds from various radios and TVs. I built him a small one octave switching keyboard (which was also synced to my analogue sequencer) that gave him some "hands-on" realtime control over the audio output from his various cassette loops. The concept was similar to a Mellotron. Initially we couldn't afford to buy much gear so I began building amps, PA systems, mixers, effects pedals, synths and all manner of sound related circuits for TG. I think because we were using a lot of custom made gear, instruments and electronics this goes some way to explain why TG sounded so different. Also having the ability to produce these amazing off the wall sounds and textures was incredibly inspiring. We were always in the studio either jamming, composing, rehearsing or just trying out new ideas. TG were based in a large artist studio space in East London and were surrounded on three sides by noisy industrial units and factories: sweat shops, dress factories, car breakers, panel beaters, a train station etc. Working in this atmosphere of industry had a lot of influence of the direction and nature of our sound. Many of the tape rhythm loops I made used snippets of industrial sounds I recorded nearby.

Planet Origo: How did you come to record your first solo album, The Space Between?

Chris Carter: During the seventies I used to carry a cassette machine around with me everywhere and I would record sounds and unusual audio textures all over London and take them back to my apartment or to the TG studio and make rhythm loops and experimental collages. Most of those finished pieces found their way into TG songs and performances as rhythms, loops or melodies but there was always a surplus of ideas that didn't fit in with the TG sound. The Space Between album grew out of those rejected pieces and from some of the music I'd been performing live in my solo Waveforms show prior to joining TG. When I stopped doing those solo performances I was left with a nagging feeling of unfinished business. So between working in my day job and the ever increasing workload of TG I started compiling all my ideas and tape experiments into some kind of commercial release.

Planet Origo: Throbbing Gristle lasted a few years until 1981, what was the most important thing to come out of this group, and did you feel that TG was part of music evolution in the UK at the time?

Chris Carter: TG's legacy to our fans and followers was our catalogue of music and ideals. Part of the philosophy of TG was that of independence and the awareness of self, self exploration, self expression, self sufficiency and so on. After TG stopped in 1981 each of us took all the knowledge and disciplines of our work together and utilised that in what we did post TG, right up until now. Being part of TG was a totally life changing and life enhancing experience for me and for that I'm grateful.

At the beginning of Industrial Music and TG I don't think we had any long term plans but it became apparent to us quite quickly that with Industrial Music we had started something that pretty much had its own momentum, even if we stopped. This was in a time when disco, prog rock and punk were the mainstay of the music industry. To them we were outsiders. Punks gave us a particularly hard time as they saw us as some kind of threat to their rock and roll posturing. Ultimately punk music is the the same old staid rock and roll formula but cloaked in a so called "street level" fashion statement. Musically speaking punk was (is) relatively safe, then along comes TG, who don't play conventional instruments, don't play 4/4, don't have a drum kit and don't give a shit whether or not people can dance to the music. Performing as TG in the 70s was exciting but it could also be a little dangerous. An "average" Industrial Music audience was quite diverse and just wanted to enjoy the TG experience. But you couldn't say punks were a particularly open minded audience because whenever we'd get punks turning up at gigs they would be the first to start shouting and throwing things about, and the show would inevitably end in a brawl.

Planet Origo: Your music spans from industrial rythms to ambient soundscapes, is there a link there or do you simply enjoy different types of music?

Chris Carter: As I said above I enjoy a wide range of music genres from Industrial to classical. Actually it's a common misconception that TG was all "walls of noise". If you listen to TG live performances (TG24 boxed set), especially the earlier gigs, there are some surprisingly low key, chilled out experimental forays. People often forget this element of TG's sound but it's an area of improvisation and composition we've always enjoyed. During our recent London regrouping to record a new TG album we were jamming as a means of warming up, and many of these sessions had a distinctly ambient feel to them.

Planet Origo: You also work with music for films and video art, and multimedia presentations; tell us about your work in this field and how it developed.

Chris Carter: Writing music for film and video and vice-versa is something I've been doing since the early 1970s. I've known the multi-media artist John Lacey since leaving school and we've collaborated on numerous occasions for music / film / video projects. Cosey and I have always produced our own videos to compliment our live performances and we've also made a number of video pieces for festivals and installations. After we moved out of London in the eighties we were working with so much video material alongside our audio work we decided to build our own Umatic edit suite, as the cost of renting video studios was so high. For the last 4 years or so our video work has been produced on DV and edited in Final Cut Pro. Cosey has produced a lot of solo video works and I've always assisted her with the music or sound on those. Next year we are hoping to release the second Carter Tutti album with an accompanying DVD.

Planet Origo: Do you have any specific composing technique?

Chris Carter: I guess it has evolved over the years but there's nothing particularly rigid about my work flow. A common reference point is that I do often begin with a rhythmic element. My technique also depends on the project. If I'm collaborating with Cosey then I may have a rhythm I'd like to use and she'll have a melody and lyrics, or I may have a bass line and she has a loop that fits with it. When working with TG again recently it was kind of spooky how easily we all fell into our old "roles" (for want of a better word), initially at least. All of the new TG tracks started life as one of my rhythms or loops then we jammed over the top, refining and distilling our individual parts until the piece had some structure. Since 2003 Cosey and I have been improvising a lot more in live performances. With our CABAL album we took the basic elements of each song and improvised with the tracks live before we went into the studio to record the finished songs. I would say the biggest difference to composing for the type of electronic and experimental music we make now is the concepts of undo and cutting & pasting. Every song, project or production I've worked on in the last 10 years could not have been made without a computer.

Planet Origo: How is your studio set-up today?

Chris Carter: For the last couple of years I've been rationalising our studio. Until 2002 we had racks and racks of gear, some of it going way back to TG. But a few years ago some of my ancient Roland 100M modules began to fail and quotes I got for parts, repairs and just servicing were astronomical. Anyway, as an indirect result of this I was made an offer for my modular system that I couldn't refuse. At the time I was going through some kind of mid-life crisis and was feeling creatively drained and hemmed in by this mountain of rapidly ageing gear. Then I had a brainstorm, or something and decided that we should sell all our analogue gear, drum machines, keyboards, synths, effects and start afresh. Once we had decided this was the way forward it was surprising how quickly it happened and within a year we had sold almost the entire contents of our studio. Although not until I spent a couple of mad months sampling everything that still worked. Earlier this year we did a complete redesign and totally refurbished our studio. Of course it took longer and cost more than we anticipated but we couldn't be happier with the feel and the sound since the refit.

We now have a relatively simplified studio set-up based around a couple of G4s running Logic Pro, Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason, some Native Instruments applications and a bunch of plug-ins. As far as hardware goes I find I still have a need to twiddle knobs so we are also using a Roland JP808 synth, a Korg ER1 mk2 rhythm unit, the Korg Legacy and a Roland VM3100Pro digital mixer. We also use Novation ReMOTE25 and Korg microKontrol MIDI keyboards. We monitor through Alesis Monitor Two speakers.

Planet Origo: Tell us about your self-built synthesisers and keyboards that you played in the 70s.

Chris Carter: When I was about 12 years old I was given a "Young Scientist" electronics kit that included instructions and parts to build a basic radio, a small amp, a flashing lamp and so on. Which I really enjoyed making. I then subscribed to Practical Electronics magazine and spent my pocket money buying electronic components to build the monthly projects. By the late sixties I was building synth circuits such as oscillators, filters, amps etc. from scratch. Then around 1972 I came across a couple of UK companies selling synthesizer circuits and kits: VCOs, LFOs, VCFs, envelope generators and so on. I started buying these, customising them and building them into my own cabinets and using them for my solo live performances and eventually with TG. I also built my own keyboard controllers, a rudimentary ribbon controller and a light activated controller. For a while there it got to be seriously habit forming and I was building bigger and bigger synths chock full of all manner of weird sound generating circuits. You can see some of these rare Cartersizers in early TG photos and videos. As TG became more successful and we had less free time I found it increasingly difficult to build my own large scale synth projects and eventually succumbed to the lure of Roland and Korg.

When I joined TG I built an effect unit called a Gristleizer for each of us. This (now infamous) box of tricks consisted of a smallish metal case containing an LFO, VCF, VCA, a pre-amp, various front panel controls and LEDs. Certain settings on the Gristleizers were very distinctive and it's often regarded as imparting one of TG's trademark sounds. We used them on almost everything: synth, guitar, bass, violin, tapes, rhythms and of course on Genesis' voice. The beauty of the Gristleizers was that its range of sounds was so extreme, which also meant it could sound completely different depending on the instrument. The sounds included slow modulated filtering, a metallic ring-modulation effect , clipped and fuzzed distortion and tremolo. At the time there was no other battery powered effect unit capable of such a wide and weird range of sounds. When TG finished I was constantly being asked by musicians to build more Gristleizers but it was something I only did for a few friends . Ultimately I built about 10 units in total but I know there are at least two (just about) working Gristleizers even now. In 2001 for the 25th anniversary of TG I was asked by Mute [the record company] if I'd be interested in putting a commemorative Gristleizer into production but after I looked into the logistics I thought the final cost was too prohibitive. Someone has also made a software plugin of the Gristleizer (PC only) but what I would like to do next year is design my own official soft-Gristleizer using something like Reaktor 4.

Planet Origo: Do you enjoy software synthesizers and what do you think about the softsynth revolution?

Chris Carter: Having used real "classic" analogue and digital synths and effects for so many years I'm the first to admit I was sceptical about the ability of soft-synths to sound any good, let alone authentic. But on the whole they sound great and within a mix they sound as good as their hardware counterparts. Actually I find the thing with soft-synths is a tendency to buy them all. You don't have the problems of price or studio space, you know that "ah where shall I put that $20.000, 6 foot wide modular system I just bought" [feeling]. Instead it's an affordable application that just sits on your drive until you need it. The trouble when you have a lot of soft-synths is forgetting what you have on you're drive (spoilt for choice) and keeping them all updated. I think there is a certain amount of snobbery amongst hardware purists regarding software synths and effects. I know a few blinkered musicians who refuse outright to use any software emulations of real instruments, but I'm happy to use hard or soft-synths and effects, as long as I can get a decent sound. What I'm hoping for soon are software emulations of the Roland System 700 and the EMS VSC3.

Planet Origo: What do you think of today's contemporary electronic music?

Chris Carter: I have mixed feelings on this subject. On the one hand I think there are some outstanding electronic musicians around producing great material. But the sheer number of releases is almost overwhelming and it's almost impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff unless by accident or recommendation. We're sent CDs of home produced electronic material on an almost daily basis and without a doubt I never listen to 90% of them more than once. Often I don't even get past the first couple of tracks as they are so boring, amateurish or downright bad. I've also noticed that many of home / bedroom studio based musicians that send us instrumental material tend to use similar sounding loops, presets, pads or rhythms. This problem stems from the availability of cheap and easy to use (too easy!) music making software. Anyone with a PC, a copy of Fruityloops, some "borrowed" sample CDs and a set of pre-sets think they are a musician. On the other hand I thinks it's absolutely brilliant and empowering that you no longer need to hire a studio or use a pressing plant to produce and release an album. I'm all for the "cottage industry" and an open market. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't use easily available music making software. I use it myself. It's just that in the last 10 years or so while the quality of the music and compositions we are sent has plummeted the quantity of demos and self produced CDs has rocketed. I know from friends in the mainstream music industry that this is not just a problem confined to electronic music and my points can equally apply to popular contemporary music.

An encouraging sign for me is that in the last year or so we've been getting more CDs of material that have obviously had a bit more thought and effort put into them. They still feature primarily electronic based compositions but the instrumentation and use of sound is more adventurous and varied, they've had vocals (sometimes good sometimes not, but they made the effort) and some structure. And they're not just monotonous or rambling jam sessions between a PC and its owner.

Planet Origo: What do you do when you are not playing or listening to music?

Chris Carter: Usually I'm happy just hanging out with Cosey. During the 1980s - 90s when we were touring and recording almost continually I stopped listening to a lot of music, other than our own. I found that the last thing I wanted to do after a gig or a day in the studio was listen to yet more music. Instead I read a lot more, took more photos, listened to the radio, watched movies, TV, the usual stuff. I still do all the above but now I'm listening to a lot of music again. Cosey bought me an iPod a few years ago and that completely changed my attitude. I dug out hundreds of old CDs loaded them onto my iPod and just spent months randomly dipping in and out of my iPodded CD library. Of course since then I've gone out and replaced dozens of even older vinyl albums with CD versions. I've had a great time rediscovering albums and tracks I'd totally forgotten about.

Planet Origo: Are there any areas of music and art you would like to explore more in the future?

Chris Carter: I've neglected my photography somewhat this year and I'd like to combine my photographic projects with music and video, maybe using animation and / or 3D motion graphics. I have a bunch of ideas but it's finding the time. Our workload should reduce in the second half of 2005 so there may be time then, but then again I said that to myself last year and I'm still playing catch up.

Planet Origo: What is your favourite food, and colour?

Chris Carter: Food: pasta, rice, Cosey's curry, muffins, danish pastries, cappuccino, Red Bush tea. Colours: black and blue, grey and white.

Other Music artist interview articles:

Interview: SynthX (1999)

Interview: Ed Starink

Larry Fast on everything about...

Interview: Michael Stearns